Session Three with George Lucas

[George Lucas is introduced. Applause.]

Jim Ward: Hi.

George Lucas: Hello.

Ward: How are you?

Lucas: All right.

Ward: Okay. I think we're going to open up the floor first, and then I know there were some questions that had been sent in advance, so we'll try to get to those as well for people that had traveled so far to be here today. But why don't we open up the floor first for George.

Question: Was recording the commentaries difficult at all?

Lucas: No, the commentaries were reasonably painless for those of us that did them. And that's a feature of DVD that everybody seems to like so we'll continue doing them. And, you know, it's a lot of off-the-cuff sort of comments and whatever comes up when you're watching the movie.

Question: Was it your decision to put the making of the Starfighter game on the DVD?

Lucas: Uh, that really wasn't my decision. [laughs] Mr. Marketing? [laughter]

Ward: Yeah. I think in a true synergistic way we wanted to highlight an award-winning game, and this was a nice way to do that.

Question: I wondered if you could discuss your long-standing practice of shooting your films in widescreen [2.35:1 scope format], and why you think it's important that those films be presented that way on DVD?

Lucas: I like the widescreen format. It's my favorite format, and I've shot most of my films in that format. I am a firm believer that the films should be shown in the way that they were intended. I mean, the design of the film and the framing and everything is very important, and I look at the DVD as being the highest quality version of the film that's going to continuously be in the marketplace, so I want it to be the best possible way to see the film.

Question: How much importance, or to what degree of importance, do you think filmmakers should be placing on DVDs while they're in the process of actually shooting the movie?

Lucas: Well it depends on what you mean. In terms of the actual storytelling and how you tell a story and everything, I don't think that they should consider it at all, quite frankly…unless you're making it specifically for DVD. But in terms of ancillary material and other things that would go into a DVD, I think it's smart to think about the kinds of material you might want to include in a DVD especially in terms of behind-the-scenes and issues that you might want to include and take care of that when you're actually shooting the movie.

Question: Today when you are shooting a movie you know that there are possibilities for it to be viewed on DVD but obviously you didn't when shooting the original trilogy. When talking about the future release of the original trilogy, is there still enough material to have that quality that we have today for "Episode I" later on for the original trilogy?

Lucas: Well I hope so. The first trilogy is much harder to put together a comprehensive package the way we did on "Episode I." That's why we're spending more time on it and it's going to take more time because we didn't shoot very much behind the scenes stuff, and a lot of the material that we would normally include just didn't exist in those days. Again, this was a long time ago. And this was before even VHS, if you remember back that far. So trying to put together something that has the kind of quality that this has is a greater challenge.

Question: Do the deleted scenes from "Episode IV" even exist?

Lucas: Oh yeah. We've saved all the material, but since the budget was extremely low on that picture the amount of scenes that were deleted was very small. So we have to sort of look at how to approach all that.

Question: I was wondering, again relating to the deleted scenes, obviously with the "Episode I" DVD you were able to finish up scenes. And with "Episode II" or in the future when you're going through editing are you going to find it a lot easier to just say, "This scene is not really necessary so it's fine to lose it for now. We can just throw it out on the DVD later?"

Lucas: Yes, that's the one real advantage of DVDs is that it makes cutting the film a little less painful. Because we always, you know, even ILM guys they'll take out a note that says you can stop working on this scene now because it's only going into the DVD. And we just set it aside. For a filmmaker it's always hard to cut material out that you want to have in there, but sometimes it just isn't appropriate for the running time of the film and everything else. So this gives you a chance to say, "Well, you know, all that work and energy and everything that went into this scene is not going to be lost."

Question: I was going to say you guys are obviously jam-packing this DVD full of extras, kind of setting a new benchmark here. But besides selling a few copies, what is your motivation?

Lucas: Well, I mean, what you're trying to do is give the people that buy the DVD the best possible experience. I mean, that's what we try to do with the movies. You know, I'm making a movie that I want to make that I enjoy and that I have a personal, emotional stake in. But at the same time, the one thing even though I'm making the film primarily for myself and for what I enjoy, I obviously like the audience to enjoy it and I want them to enjoy it and I want them to feel that they had the kind of experience they anticipated when they paid their money to go see the film. And I think that carries over to the other mediums that we work in, which is primarily DVD. I want somebody to feel that they got their money's worth when they buy this thing.

Question: I noticed in documentary you didn't look happy. Does the digital world bring as many problems as solutions because of all that can be included in the film?

Lucas: Well it makes the process more challenging. On one hand it makes the technical side of it much easier. We're not dealing with so much minutae: torn sprocket holes, phony masks, all kinds of things that we had to deal with before. And in terms of allowing me to imagine greater things, it's fantastic in terms of the creative side of it. But, along with being able to imagine greater things, comes the obligation to deal with all of those things that you've imagined. Which means that there's a lot more work involved. And so it's a kind of double-edged sword. No matter what you do, I think if you see somebody, any director on any picture, toward the end of post-production they're going to look haggard, tired and lost. It's just the nature of the beast. Especially on something like this where you've been working on it for a long time. I mean I, it takes me three years to do this. "The Phantom Menace" took four years. So I've been working on this thing for four solid years. And that's not gee, you know, I'll come in today or I won't come in. This is working from 8:30, 9:00 in the morning until 6 to 6:30 every night. You know, five days a week, sometimes six days a week. For four years. That's a lot of work and by the time you get finished with it you're really burned out.

Question: I have a question about the story of "Episode I." Given the first films were so beloved and obviously there is a lot of risk in people's expectations being that "Episode I" would meet or exceed the magic of the first movies, what is it about that story that you felt so compelled to tell that you'd undertake all that risk and, as you just illustrated, dedicate all this time and energy and years of your life to tell these stories again?

Lucas: Well, you know, that was something I debated for quite awhile. And it was a number of years -- about 15 -- that I took off to do other things. And I thought long and hard whether I wanted to commit another ten years of my life doing another trilogy. And I felt at the time that there were interesting aspects about how Darth Vader became Darth Vader, and that it was a strong enough story that it would be worth telling. It's a different kind of story because it's really based on backstory. It's about notes you make to yourself that get you to the point in the film where you start. And the trilogy was always intended really to be one film, not a trilogy. But it was always intended to be like a serial, like a Saturday matinee serial that you come in, you miss the first three episodes and now you're right in the middle of it and then you go on and you're seeing the middle of something. You're not seeing the whole thing. And over the years, and with a lot of prodding from fans and everybody else I decided to go back and see if I couldn't make the backstory work; because it was already done. I think it's got some interesting aspects to it that illuminate what happens in episodes IV, V and VI. So the idea of completing it and having Episodes I-VI was an allure I couldn't avoid.

Question: How aware are you with all the novels and comics that have been written about the "Star Wars" universe? Do you read them or are you aware of them?

Lucas: I'm aware of them. I can't say that I read them. [laughter] I'm mostly only aware of what's in the movies, in the movies that I've worked on. Everything else kind of floats into a universe that I really don't have too much to do with.

Question: Why don't you put the trailer of "Episode II" on the DVD?

Lucas: Well, I think the primary reason is we don't have a trailer for "Episode II" yet. [laughter] And we don't have enough shots to even make a trailer for "Episode II" yet. Traditionally, we release a trailer at Thanksgiving, I mean the first trailer. There are always two trailers. There's always one at Thanksgiving and there's always one in March. And we thought about it but I didn't want to delay the DVD, I don't know what the timing was but I know there's a number of months that have to transpire between the point where you lock everything down and start mastering to the point where you actually can release it. And this wouldn't have really come out until next spring sometime if we had waited to put the trailer on it.

Ward: Content-wise we had to lock this in April, and there was nothing, really.

Lucas: Yeah, and it's a marketing gimmick but I felt there's not much. Ultimately I think it would be better just to get the thing done and not worry about doing that part of it.

Question: George, you mentioned that you spent four years working on this film; you were working just like nine-to-five. Do you think the DVD has benefited from you having some time to get perspective on this film, instead of just diving straight in at the end and just throwing whatever you had available at it?

Lucas: Well, obviously on this one, just in terms of having to finish, some of the scenes took quite a while. That's nothing you just don't go out and say, "Okay, we'll just cut these and we'll put them on the DVD." I mean, that was like a nine-month process I think just to finish those scenes. So it's taken a long time to actually do the work, and I have been working on the other movie. So I have to kind of do this in between everything else. So no matter how I do, I couldn't just jump into it and just do it because I don't have the time for that. And the process of committing the funds and the talent and all the people involved to actually finish scenes that were cut out of the movie, is kind of a big deal. Because they aren't finished and then you cut them in, as you probably already realize that they get cut out pretty early in the process, and then they finish them.

Question: Are you still overwhelmed by the fans' expectations?

Lucas: Well, not really. I mean it's great that the fans love the films and I'm appreciative that we have a good base of people that like the movies, but ultimately I have to go ahead and just make the movies that I want to make. And make them the way I want to make them. And, you know, nobody is always going to be happy about everything. So we get a certain amount of people kvetching about stuff on everything we do. I can't really be bothered with it. I have to kind of just make the movie as I see it, and make it for my own enjoyment and hope that other people like it. And hope that they feel that it was an entertaining adventure for them.

Question: We saw you in the documentary having fun with moving the actors around while editing the movie. Is that something that you're curious to manipulate?

Lucas: I'm not quite sure I follow all of that. I mean, I came out of editing. That's how I started, and the whole process of editing is to manipulate the images and the acting and the performance. That's what an editor does. That's their whole job and it always has been. The fact that we can now manipulate things in the frame, as opposed to just manipulating frames, it just gives us a more high quality way of improving the performances and getting the story told and the characters developed the way we want them.

Question: How do you feel about the whole debate about digital actors then?

Lucas: Well, acting is acting. I mean, most of the discussion on virtual actors at this point is a discussion by people that don't know anything about acting. And they don't know that there's a craft and there's talent, and there is no such thing as a virtual actor. You know, all actors are real; they're all flesh and blood. That's why it's such a ridiculous debate. I don't know what they're talking about. It's not just what the actor looks like. We don't make silent movies. You know, the performance is in the voice, and then part of it is in the image but it's not one thing. And most of the virtual actors or so-called virtual actors that are working today, even in my films, we use the real actor. The animators, who are also actors, take their cues from the actual actor that's on the set that plays the role. It's not like an animator thinks this up on their own. And, definitely, the computer does not create these actors. There are live flesh and blood people working very hard, who are very, very talented, who understand the craft and have the talent to act that are animating these characters with, and in combination with, an actual live professional actor that has talent and craft to deliver a performance. And when you get into a situation where you have people that don't understand acting, you will see bad performances. And it doesn't make any difference whether they're virtual or anything else because it's the people -- the director, the actors and the animators -- that determine the quality of the performance. And there is such a thing called performance. You just can't make a lifelike figure and say it is going to work. Because it doesn't. It never will. And the computer can't do that. Until you have real good artificial intelligence that's quirky, like humans are, you're never going to get that to happen. And it definitely will not happen in our lifetime.

Question: Could you talk about your experience as a parent in telling another story, another time about coming-of-age? And how do you balance the creative decisions in the course of telling your myth, between telling a tale that's appropriate for children and a tale that's appropriate?

Lucas: The "Star Wars" films are primarily for children. I've never changed it. They've always been targeted pretty much for the same audience. The fact that adults like it is a plus. The widest audience is really young people. It always has been. When you look at all the hit movies that have ever been made they're all for young people. You know, old people don't go to the movies. They aren't the market. They never will be. So what you do is make something that's age appropriate and you try to make it intelligent. I've made the film for young people and I've tried to make an intelligent film, and as a result it's worked for everybody in all ages. But I haven't changed it at all. I'm trying to, I don't look at this as a bunch of different movies. I look at this as one 12-hour movie that I'm trying to get finished. And even though it's taking me 30 years to do it, it's really just a six-part movie, a mini-series if you would. So I'm trying to keep it all consistent, all exactly the same, all using all the same rules that I've concocted for myself in terms of the style and the way it works together and everything, so that it'll look like one seamless piece and you can watch it from "Episode I" to "Episode VI" and it all makes sense. And it all feels consistent. And it's all one story.

Question: You've moved completely away from film and into shooting digitally. I 'm wondering, what if the movie theater as a gathering place no longer existed? And I was wondering how you felt about this, and would you create movies that aren't for a theater?

Lucas: Well there is no difference really in the technology. Digital doesn't change anything. I mean, it's easier for me to work in and there are a lot of little things that have to do with the technology of making moving images, you know, of making cinema. But that doesn't affect the experience of seeing it. People go to movie theatres and watch movies because humans are social animals, and they will always be social animals. And they will always gather. And they'll always want to laugh together, and they always want to cry together and they'll always want to share something together. So I don't see movie theatres ever going away. And people make cinema for the solitary experience called television. And people watch it by themselves. When television came in everybody thought, well, that's the end of movies. Well, that's not the end of movies. Movies are bigger now than they've ever been. And they will continue to be bigger than they've ever been.

Question: Would you make movies to be delivered directly to homes?

Lucas: Yeah, I did. The "Young Indiana Jones Chronicles" was beamed directly into the homes. It was a TV series. I love television. I enjoy the experience of making television. But that's different than movies. I mean that's different than the shared experience you have in a movie theatre.

Question: Because of the way in which information is revealed, for example the surprise at the end of "The Empire Strikes Back" -- Darth Vader is in fact Anakin Skywalker -- will watching episodes I through VI be the best way to watch these movies in the future?

Lucas: I don't know what will be the best way. You know, I think everybody will look at that differently. There's a whole generation that's looked at it as a flashback sequence, what I'm doing now. You know, where we started with the end and then we flashed back to what happened. Kids in the future when they see it probably will see it I through VI. The experience for them will be different because the times we live in are different and their experiences are different. Obviously when "Star Wars" came out there was nothing like it at all. It was completely unique. Now almost everything that comes out every year there's at least five or six versions of this kind of movie that come out. So the experience isn't quite as novel as it was, and I think then people will follow the story more and be more interested in the story. And if you already tell people what the ending is and then you go back and tell them what happened, is that compelling? Well, it worked for "Citizen Kane." And so, does it work in reverse? Which is, you go through and you find out what's going on. Is that compelling? And I think it is. Because you are going to know the film as it's finished, if you were to see it I through VI, you're watching a different kind of movie than what our generation saw. Darth Vader, who is ultimately a rather thin character in the last three movies, except in the very last one, will have a lot more dynamic going on because you know who he is. You know, how he got to be what he is. And you know what his struggle has been. And you have a little bit more of, I think, an emotional investment in what Luke is doing. When you see it the other way around you don't feel it that much. He's just he villain; he's the bad guy and that's it. But you don't realize that he's a human being; that he's got problems. You know, he could be saved and he was tricked and he was a great little kid when he started out and can he be resurrected?

Question: We saw in the documentary that "The Phantom Menace" took digital editing to a completely new level, being able to mix and match different actors in different cuts into a single shot, but now "Episode II" is going to be an all-digital production. Do you think the digital technology in filmmaking has let the genie out of the bottle? Because anybody can now rent a digital film camera and has access to non-linear editing, does that mean now that anybody can make a film? And is that a good thing?

Lucas: I think anybody now has the ability to make a film in terms of the capabilities to make a film. Everybody has the ability to write a novel, and to write a great symphony. That doesn't mean anybody goes out and does it. Film is such a complicated and expensive medium, that by its very nature there have been gatekeepers that have allowed most of the people not to participate, whereas literature, music, dance, painting -- most any other art form -- anybody can do it. It doesn't cost much, you buy some paint, get a paintbrush and an easel, and you can do it. You can be Picasso, Rembrandt, anybody you want to be. What keeps people from doing that -- there is skill, craft, talent, and a lot of other things -- fear, that keep people from doing that. And I think those things will keep certain people from the art of cinema just like they have kept them away from the art of everything else. It doesn't keep everybody out. There are certainly a lot of bad films out there. Most of them are bad. Most of the novels written are really bad. Most of them never get published. Every other person's written a bad novel at some point in their life and they're embarrassed to even show it to anybody, but I think it's a great creative freedom to be able to say, " I can do this if I want to. If I want to try, I'll do it." And if you want to make movies, write a novel, paint a picture, you can do it. And then you can look at later and say, "Well, I think I'll put this in the closet and I don't think I'll ever let anybody see it." Or "I'm really proud of this and I think I'll do this for a living." But before, you didn't even have that option. Now you have the option and I think that's fantastic and the most important thing that digital cinema is going to bring us is the fact it's going to democratize the entire medium and allow a lot more people to come into it and express themselves. But a very small percentage of it will be brilliant.

Question: Do you think DVD is going to allow the viewer as rich an experience as what we see in the theater?

Lucas: It's a different experience. I think the biggest difference between a theatrical experience and a home experience is that a theatrical experience is a group experience. It's a social experience and that's why people go. That's why people still go to the ballet, the opera, the symphony. They go to a lot of things that in theory should have died out years ago, but don't because people want to have a group experience. That is what the cinema brings you. It also brings you a bigger experience, a taller screen. Now with digital, it will have the same quality experience that you get at home now. The home experience gives you a chance to review things, to stop things, to study things. It's a different kind of thing. I don't see the thing as competing with each other at all. I think of them as helping each other to form a complete experience. One is a social experience, like music. You can listen to "La Boheme" in the opera house, enjoy it and then you can go listen to at home while you're listening to something else. I think that's what these home formats do for you. Is it gives you a chance to go through it and enjoy the bits and pieces that you like without having to mess with all the other stuff or it gives you a chance to look through and think about it in a quieter situation and try to figure out what is being said in the move and you have a richer experience that way.

Ward: Okay, we have time for one final question.

Question: I was wondering about all of the special, expensive digital trickery you used in your appearances in the documentary "The Beginning?" Around you, everybody got fatter, lost hair, and aged tremendously, and yet, you look exactly the same!

Lucas: That's the special part of ILM. The department there is called the Dorian Gray office. [laughter] You go in there and they make a perfect digital image of you and as long as that doesn't change, you don't change!

--END--

Click here to read Introduction

Click here to read Session One with Rick McCallum

Click here to read Session Two with Van Ling, Rick Dean and Pablo Helman

Click here to view the DVD's menus


Special thanks to Lucasfilm Ltd. and 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment

Look for our DVD review of "Star Wars: Episode I -- The Phantom Menace" to be posted soon.